Wed
Jul 15 2009
11:26 am
By: BrantWW

There is a new plan making the rounds at the courthouse (confirmed to me by the County Commission Chairman).

Privatize the jail. Turn it over to a for profit company.

There seems to be much support for this plan.

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Private Prisons are a Bad Idea

The list of abuses and scandals surrounding private prisons are many: (link...)

-- OneTahiti

Why

If a private company could operate the jail and make a profit, why can't the county operate it and break even?

Instead of paying guards and other county personnel, county money would be paying a private company the same or more to house an inmate.

Am I missing something?

Main difference... a

Main difference... a for-profit is using their OWN money to run it and make a profit. A county-run operation is using someone else's (taxpayer), so it doesn't bother them to spend it more freely!

Correction needed

A for-profit is not using their "own" money, the County would be paying them to operate the jail. Where does the County get the money to pay the private company? Well obviously from tax revenues.

How altruistic if a for-profit did use their own money, but even a stay on the farm type like me understands how capitalism works.

Living and teaching Earth friendly sustainable agricultural practices.

The money a for-profit

The money a for-profit receives/charges for their services they provide, once paid to them, is THEIR money. How much they keep of it above expenses is their profit.

Your way of thinking would be that if you provide eggs to the jail, its not YOUR money after you sell the eggs to them, because the money started out as coming from the taxpayers!

O.K. I'll bite

By your reasoning, after I sell eggs to the jail, it will be "my money," but you as a taxpayer will have provided it, and unless you are in jail, you won't get to eat any of the eggs you paid for, whether it is government run or private run.

Works for me, but I don't see the difference!

Living and teaching Earth friendly sustainable agricultural practices.

Question

Granted many private companies are more efficient and perhaps more effective than government agencies. For instance, in Kingston we contract out our trash collection. Many cities farm out their sewer and water operations.

However, my concern lies with the human element. First, the problem we have with the jail is not a result of the people working there. The problem we now have with staffing seems to be the result of poor planning among those responsible for planning and building the new jail.

Moreover, no matter what one thinks of the people who are in our jail, they are not trash or sewer. They are members of the human family. I worry that the way a company will make money is by lowering standards - less pay and benefit for employees, less medical care, food, and service for the incarcerated. Working in the jail as a county employee is hard enough - but working in the jail for lower wages and benefits may make it impossible.

We must also keep in mind that many of the people in our jail have not been convicted of a crime and they are not to be punished.

Also, the time to have considered this option would have been before building the new jail – the companies running private jails most likely would have built it for us.

Finally, hiring a private company will not absolve the county should there be problems in the jail.

(Disclaimer - my mother in law is a Sergeant working in the jail in Roane County. However, I have not yet polled her on this subject).

I am totally opposed to a

I am totally opposed to a private company running the jail or any other corrections facility. We don't want to wind up like California where the lobbyists push for unreasonable enforcement and ridiculous restrictions on prisoner probations so they can drive up the prison population. It has trippled California's prison population, pushed them deeper in to the red financially, and has not had much positive effect on the crime rate. The incentive needs to be on keeping these people out, working and paying taxes if there is no real protection to be gained from locking them up.

Great point, WC

I had not considered this angle. It make sense that companies getting paid on a per prisoner basis would seek and find ways to up the occupancy rate in their iron bar motels. I am sure they would have no problem finding lobbists to push their cause in Nashville.

I am trying to keep an open mind on this subject, but I am not finding a great deal of positive feedback on privatizing the jail. At the least this is not something that should be rushed. If privatizing the jail is a good idea this year without study and if it is indeed a good idea, it will still be a good idea next year after we have studied the pros and cons.

Sometimes saving money is not enough justification for taking a particular action. In this case, I feel that the intangible human costs will more than offset the any financial advantage.

"Estimated 5000 juveniles sentenced" under for-profit scheme

"Judges Plead Guilty in Scheme to Jail Youths for Profit" (NY Times): (link...)

-- OneTahiti

It is a good thing

It is a good thing that Roane County would never suffer a dishonest judge.

We all will pay the price of poor planning!

The planners of the new jail did a lousy job! It is amazing that here we are with a first class facility and the Sheriff says he'll not move in unless he gets the staff he is asking for. To do so we'll all have to ante up more tax dollars. That prospect gets everybody in an uproar, so someone comes up with the privatization idea to deflect angry citizens and preserve votes.

Bad idea!! Private jails are a great idea that does not work. Introducing the profit motive to prisoner management is ridiculous.

We need to bite the bullet on this, hire the necessary staff, move forward and elect officials with better planning skills.

I would add...

I would add that I have tremendous respect for Jack Stockton and the fact that he is sticking to his "guns" on the issue of staffing in the new jail.

Unlike many politicians whose decisions and stances are often based on votes gained - votes lost, Jack is willing to risk taxpayer support in order to do the right thing.

He will not place his staff or prisoners at risk for the sack of votes.

My hat is off to Sheriff Jack Stockton!

COUNTY COMMISSION TO DEBATE

Commission to debate privatization of jail at tonights meeting

That makes me think there's

That makes me think there's a mercenary making the rounds talking to our commissioners. Good thing they are way too smart to fall for a scheme like that. Oh, wait!

Correction

The county commission is not debating the selling of the jail tonight, the budget committee will...

July 16, 2009: 7:00 p.m. -

There will be a Public Hearing on the Budget/a Budget Committee meeting/and a Commission Workshop on the Budget on Thursday, July 16, 2009. These meetings will start at 7:00 o'clock p.m. in the Qualls Commission Room on the 2nd floor of the Courthouse in Kingston.

County can not farm out jail.

In county commission budget workshop I just learned that without sheriff's approval county cannot take the jail from him. This a state law. Thus, not until the next election can the jail be farmed out to a private company and the plans must be in place before the sheriffs election.

By iPhone From the court house

Yep -

TN Constitution gives authority of the jail to the Sheriff. Period. He's got the last word.

RB

Another thing to consider is

Another thing to consider is that even if the County Commission decided to privatize the new jail that wouldn't eliminate the 20+ sheriff's office employees currently on the jail staff. Those employees can't be cut by the Commission EVER so taxpayers would still have to fund the money for the private company to run the jail while still paying for the same amount of staff currently employed at the sheriff's office.

I think out of the 95 counties in Tennessee only 3 have privatized jails and my understanding is only the annexes of those county jails are privatized and not the entire jails.

You are partially correct

The positions can not be eliminated by county commission without the Sheriff's approval.

Which in this case means they could not eliminate them because the Sheriff will not agree.

Proponents may argue.

Proponents of privatizing the new jail may argue that there is not a new jail yet. Yes, there is a building that says it is a jail. But, there are no inmates housed in it. And, there are no employees working there.
No, the county cannot take the jail from the Sheriff. But, there is an existing jail in use. They could try to make him use the existing jail until the next election.
I do not believe the jail should be privatized either. I respect Sheriff Stockton and have respect for anyone who risks his or her life each day to help keep us safe. If the new jail is opened, the Sheriff should have everbody and everything he needs to insure the safety of those working in the facility.
However, some may argue that it isn't a jail yet, essentially to try and put off opening it until the next election. Can they do that? I am not sure. But, you can bet someone will try.

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