Tue
Apr 21 2009
10:25 am

Well, seems like some folks in Singapore have worked out a reasonable reastion to pull CO2 out of the air and us it to make a useful organic product. A new twist to recycling the atmosphere in favor of sustainability. Produces methanol, the simplest alcohol, which is useful in many chemical processes and as a solvent.

(link...)

RB

trees have many functions

DPA "The forests hold a vast majority of the above ground carbon. The younger trees do this more efficiently. Well you see were I'm headed, planting large quantities of trees and cutting down the mature ones."

While younger, faster growing trees may sop up more carbon annually, that is not their only role. Mature trees, which you suggest should be cut down, help provide humidity which makes the atmosphere moist enough so it can rain. A mature tree fully leafed out has the evaporative surface of a 40 acre lake.

Too much of the western academic / scientific approach to the environment is through a reductionist perspective. It will only be when we truly understand that everything is linked to everything else, that intelligent policies to save us from the seeds of environmental destruction that we have sown, will come into play. Until then, we will continue to look for isolated solutions and fixes that can never truly work.

Cutting down forests to grow food is an equally insane response to an ever growing human population. We need to increase forest land in order to have enough viable area to be able to grow food sustainably. As long as the human population multiplies exponentially, the hunger and the planetary degradation will only continue to get worse.

What we are doing on our teaching farm is utilizing a holistic approach in order to restore the land to its native fertility and wetness. We have 40 years of actual experimentation in natural methods-based eco-system restoration. A tour of our farm will act as proof that we are on the right track

There are contradictory

There are contradictory studies on the question of whether a young tree stores more carbon that a mature tree. The only ones I am aware of that conclude the younger trees store the most were funded by timber interests and dealt with commercially viable conifers. It may certainly be true that at the end of a tree's lifespan it slows down, but that may be hundreds of years past the age at which trees are commercially harvested.

Since it is the leaves that do the work of converting solar energy to biological fuel, It is nonsense to think a younger tree with fewer leaves and surface area exposed to light can out store a much larger though older tree with far greater leaf surface area. The tree's access to nutrients and water play a more significant part in this than age itself up to a point.

You'll notice

I said younger trees "may" sop up extra carbon, which could be true relative to the fact that they are producing more woody matter per annual cycle, whereas the mature trees are "fixed." In other words, how one "jukes the stats" is how this could be interpreted. It would make perfect sense for the timber industry to promote this questionable "fact."

My main point was that trees, no matter what their age, play a much larger role than just carbon sinks and they need to be looked at in a holistic manner as being part of the overall life cycle.

Living and teaching Earth friendly sustainable agricultural practices.

I am fully engaged

in the annual ritual of Spring Planting and all that entails, so by necessity my answer to your long posting will have to be brief. Also, because we are on slow speed dial-up, checking all your posted links would take an inordinate amount of time I can't spare. Kind of like Alice's Restaurant and the trial with the blind judge not being able to view all the defendant's 8X10 glossy photos.

Removing the largest and often oldest trees in logger terms is called high-grading. The downside is that it is tough to get them down and out without lots of damage to other, younger trees, and by removing the big, older, healthy trees, you take away the best genetic seed producers. Most of our current forest land in Tennessee consists mainly of stump sprouts which creates a weaker and genetically inferior stand of trees.

Rather than let the forest regrow to a healthy and mature state, the timber industry came up with a way to use this inferior tree stock by creating so-called engineered lumber, a structurally weak, toxic, easily degraded form of glue bonded wood chips. This will only ensure that the forest will never again be allowed to reach maturity.

While I support wood construction of homes, I do question size needs and the resource drain on over-sized ego homes and faux mansions. The key word here is sustainable. Builders routinely bulldoze the lot clear, burn the formerly existing trees, and then build entirely with imported wood.

In short, an attitude is at play here, and the facts and stats will be juked around to rationalize the continued destruction of the web of life within the forest. Old trees falling and rotting in the forest are not the reason we have excessively high carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere. While better forest management might provide some benefit, it pales beside the changes that would occur if we all limited ourselves to one small hybrid vehicle, or stopped burning coal to generate electricity.

Bottom line, we can't continue to live the environmentally wasteful, resource extravagant way we do, poisoning nearly every life-form on the planet, and expect the situation to improve.

Birds and small mammals need dead trees for nesting cavities, deer need saplings for browse, and young saplings need nurse logs. The inter-dependent links and symbiotic relationships with all parts of the forest from floor to canopy top is endless. When it is managed for profit alone, then it suffers great harm.

Trees move moisture from the ground, out through the leaves and into the atmosphere. This release creates a chemical reaction which helps seed clouds to produce rain. Trees are part of the hydrological cycle and big trees are a big part of that cycle as their roots and canopies are extensive.

I hope this answers some of your questions.

Living and teaching Earth friendly sustainable agricultural practices.

This is one chemical

This is one chemical reaction in a many step process that is trying to mimic chlorophyl in some respects. It is not a carbon sink which would take CO2 out of the air and sequester it somewhere somehow.

What this reaction does is break the carbon oxygen bond so that complex hydrocarbons can be formed. The end products would be a hydrocarbon, such a methane, that could be used as an energy source, and O2 which could be used to burn the methane and create power. If you think that sounds like a redundant circle, you would be correct. The energy source used in the process would be solar. We are essentially talking about a chemical battery that recharges with the sun.

John Boehner - "Scientist "- comments on CO2

"BOEHNER: George, the idea that carbon dioxide is a carcinogen that is harmful to our environment is almost comical. Every time we exhale, we exhale carbon dioxide. Every cow in the world, you know, when they do what they do, you’ve got more carbon dioxide. And so I think it’s clear…"
Link

The question was asked

and answered. I posted the entire answer. He does not amend it later in the interview. Mr. Boehner has one of the worst environmental voting records, scoring a "zero" on the League of Conservation Voters scorecard along with Rep. Roy Blunt.
Link
When the rest of the industrialized world wanted our help with Kyoto, we refused. Now he says we should work with China and India, in his world that means just go along, under the guise of protecting jobs.
What he wants to protect is industry, from having to take responsibility for the emissions they produce.

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