Wed
Mar 18 2009
11:30 am
Intent of TN Container Deposit Bill Questioned
By: onetahiti

A Tennessee "Bottle Bill" has been filed in both the Senate and the House ((link...)). Usually I applaud bottle bills; I've seen them work very well in other states.

This time, the state seems to be counting on $10 million in unclaimed container deposits to help fill their coffers. The way these bills read now, they are not so much recycling and litter control bills as a regressive disguised tax on containers.

One of the biggest things wrong with these proposed bills is the extremely low deposit: 5 cents. This is the same deposit folks in some states had 50 years ago. I would have said at least 25 cents to allow for inflation. If every bottle and can on the side of the road were worth a quarter a lot more of them would get picked up.

Also the recycling would work better if every vendor who sold containers also had to take them back for recycling.

The other big thing wrong with these bills is the extremely low money given to redemption centers for taking in the returned containers. "March 9: An amendment is filed that reduces the container-recovery fee to one-eighth of a cent per container and reduces the payment to redemption centers to a maximum of 1.5 cents." How low can they go? Redemption centers should get much more!

For more information, see: (link...)

Topics:

Atta Boy Wc

Submitted by Lala on March 18, 2009 - 11:52am.

Good write up and a fine looking picture too.
Sorry Posted at the wrong post

I think things are set as

Submitted by WhitesCreek on March 18, 2009 - 1:15pm.

I think things are set as they are to get around the Coca Cola lobby. They spent big bucks to defeat the last version of the bill.

If you have spent time in a state that has a bottle bill, one of the first things you notice is how clean the roads are. I don't have a problem with it, though I can quibble with certain parts.

I want a redemption fee on fast food drink cups and food wrappers, though. That's the bulk of the roadside trash out my way. What has been seen is that when people start acting a certain way toward one segment of trash that used to go out the window but now represents money to them, they seem to be much more aware of how they should deal with all trash.

Nothing's perfect though.

I grew up in MI and the

Submitted by utopia on March 18, 2009 - 4:16pm.

I grew up in MI and the deposit was and is a dime. Everybody takes back bottles and cans. Now at the grocery stores they have automated machines, almost like the coinstar machines. And as far as the trash on the roads, when they started doling out hefty fines for littering you could really see the difference. We get all kinds of trash at our place. My favorite were the tires somebody threw out, I'm guessing because they didn't want to pay to take them to Midtown. Oh yeah, cigarette butts are litter too!

Some explanations for the TN bottle bill

Submitted by margedavis on March 19, 2009 - 7:37pm.

I'm delighted to see the proposed container-deposit bill being discussed here! I'm Marge Davis, coordinator of the bottle-bill effort known as Pride of Place (POP).

I understand and appreciate much that is being said here, including questions re the amount of the deposit and the payment to redemption centers.

I'd like to explain some of the rationale. First--the 5-cent deposit.

1. We could indeed get higher redemption rates with a 10-cent or even 25-cent deposit--but the 5-cent deposit is amazingly effective. Based on redemption rates in other states, we anticipate 85 percent of 4.5 billion cans and bottles. That's huge.

2. The legislature balks at the idea of 10 cents, whereas they can handle a nickel. We have to do what's passable.

3. The reality is that in order to pass this bill, we have to keep the empties out of the grocery stores. And in order to keep the empties out of the grocery stores, we have to have independent redemption centers. And in order to have enough independent redemption centers to be reasonably convenient for consumers, we have to make sure they earn a reasonable income. Part of that income will come from selling the containers to scrap yards, etc. Aluminum is always profitable, even in this economy, but not so much for glass and plastic. Therefore, we need to bridge the gap. The unclaimed deposits are what allow us to do this. Yes, we could ask the distributors or the consumers to help pay the difference, but this is not only politically untenable, it's probably not really necessary. We expect Tennessee can have an effective and convenient container-redemption system based on the scrap value plus the unclaimed deposits. After 5 years talking to legislators, I believe this puts us on a good common ground, perhaps enough to actually pass this bill!

Thanks for your interest. If you have any questions for me, feel free to e-mail me at margedavis@comcast.net.

MargeDavis

Submitted by onetahiti on March 19, 2009 - 8:07pm.

Thank you for the explanations. I appreciate the information. :)

I still have some questions though.

I'm still doubtful that 1.5 cents per container is enough to attract enough redemption centers, especially in rural areas.

And what about the other 15% of those multitudes of containers?

Also, is the money from the unredeemed containers earmarked just for anti-litter and recycling use? Or is it meant to also be a profit center?

Or maybe I should be viewing this bill as just a first step? :)

Thanks again.

-- OneTahiti

I'm kinda with One T on this....

Submitted by randmart on March 19, 2009 - 8:59pm.

Apparently Marge's group has figured out what it takes to get the legislation thru. If this is a first step, I'm all for it. Since the entire cost of the redemption centers would would be paid by the operators using a portion of the 5 cent redemption fee, will they be able to generate enough profit to sustain their enterprise? I would suspect that there would not be enough centers to make the process convenient and that the centers would not be well maintained. Does the plan ultimately call for the elimination of the centers by allowing retailers to handle the redemptions? If so this seems like the long way around a straight up redemption plan. After all the end goal is not profit but reduction of litter.

Maybe I'm dense but please

Submitted by harrimanite on March 19, 2009 - 8:27pm.

Maybe I'm dense but please explain this to me... If a consumer buys a bottled drink, will they be paying 5 cents more for it? What will they get back upon redemption? Will they get their 5 cents back (plus 1.5 cents)or just the 1.5 cents?
If we pay 5 cents more for a deposit, we should get all that back, if not, then it's just another tax increase to the consumer.

Who will be in charge of the redemption centers, private business owners?

The way it should work

Submitted by macmurchadh on March 19, 2009 - 8:35pm.

is .05 deposit .05 return, redemption center makes 1.5 for handling, right?

Onetahiti

Submitted by macmurchadh on March 18, 2009 - 10:20pm.

I agree with you. Looks like the state makes the lion share of the money here, and a lot of people will step right over the nickel. Not near enough incentive here. I think fines could work, but there seems to be no appetite for enforcement based on what you see all over our roads.

Our roadsides have become

Submitted by farmer leaf on March 18, 2009 - 10:30pm.

linear surface landfills. The irony is that the heavy emphasis on Southern Heritage & private property rights seems to not get factored in when it comes to littering.

What is "Southern Heritage" but the land, the culture, and the ones who lived and died defending it. Do we honor that by chucking trash out the window?

Living and teaching Earth friendly sustainable agricultural practices.

Exactly right

Submitted by macmurchadh on March 18, 2009 - 10:49pm.

Farmer Leaf. I am originally from another southern state that does not allow the kind of dumping on private property that goes on here. It is sad, and contributes to the reputation (or perception) that outsiders have of this region.

Well maybe law enforcement

Submitted by utopia on March 19, 2009 - 9:01am.

Well maybe law enforcement needs to work up an appetite for handing out those fines. Although, I don't know who is going to fine the le who toss their cigarette butts out of the windows on Roane St. in Harriman. It seems like they should be leading by example. And the county and cities could use the extra money from those fines. It reminds me of a bumper sticker I used to have "People who litter are trash."

Keep Roane Beautiful

Fines

Submitted by RICK on March 19, 2009 - 9:09am.

My daughter received a letter from Nashville not long ago. Someone at McDonald's in Harriman reported someone in her vehicle throwing a cigarette butt out the window. Nashville sent her a warning, a litter bag, and a small, fire proof bag just for cigarette butts. She has stopped smoking since then because she is pregnant. But the warning stated that she could be fined up to $1500 next time. So, if you see someone littering, get their tag number and send it to the Dept. of Transportation. At least they will get the attention of the one littering our roads.

I think this is really helpful information...

Submitted by RoaneBooster on March 19, 2009 - 9:55am.

... something I didn't know. THanks, Rick, for posting it!

RB

RB I agree and if more

Submitted by Lala on March 19, 2009 - 10:09am.

people would call or send in license plates #s litter in Roane County
could stop. Maybe you and RV could counsel the Hariman cops who litter.
RCN had a article about a very young or new cop whose quick thinking preventing a business from burning. I know that cop and he comes from very good stock.

It's worth a try, Lala :-)

Submitted by RoaneBooster on March 19, 2009 - 10:44am.

Of course, if a cop litters, his car has a license plate on it, and it, too, could be turned in to TDOT. I bet a similar letter coming to the PD would get some serious attention, don't you?

We DO have a lot of really good cops - and newbies to WANT to be good cops. Sometimes they need some guidance to understand how they need to be good examples when they're so obviously in the public eye.

RB

I have met some good police

Submitted by utopia on March 19, 2009 - 11:36am.

I have met some good police officers in Harriman. I did not mean for my comment to come off as a generalization like it did.

Thanks for the information,

Submitted by utopia on March 19, 2009 - 9:20am.

Thanks for the information, Rick. Now I won't feel like there is nothing I can do.

I agree lala

Submitted by RICK on March 19, 2009 - 11:34am.

Some do not realize that preventing litter from being thrown out is part of the job. No, it isn't high on their job description, but if they litter, it should be reported the same as a private citizen.
We do have some excellent police officers. Even a little reminder to them would help. And, why not have the police chiefs hold a 10 minute class just on littering? Might be good to add it to their training requirements. Just a thought.

utopia

Submitted by RICK on March 19, 2009 - 11:56am.

I don't think anyone viewed your comments in a negative way. I didn't anyway. Keep on Postin!!!!

Rick is right Utopia

Submitted by RoaneBooster on March 19, 2009 - 11:58am.

Somebody'll click your switch if you get our of line... Lord knows it's happened enough to me ;-)

RB

RB...

Submitted by RICK on March 19, 2009 - 12:01pm.

Sounds like that could be painful. A little hunor here......And I know....very little.

I personally would not

Submitted by macmurchadh on March 19, 2009 - 9:16pm.

want to shop in a grocery store that is a redemption center. I worked a bottle return as a teenager, and I can tell you that was the nastiest job I ever held. As you can imagine people brought in empties in all kinds of condition. We constantly fought insects and vermin. Now imagine adding cans and other containers.
Redemption centers are the key to making this work and most retailers are not going to embrace it.

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