Fri
May 2 2008
07:14 am
By: WhitesCreek
From the Roane County News:
(County Mayor Mike) Farmer said last month that he had no idea when the new jail would be finished or if it would be completed on budget.
On ten million dollar project, wouldn't it be a good idea to have a detailed budget and timeline? Isn't the Design-Build firm supposed to keep that and give regular update?
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Microsoft Project file?
Wouldn't it be nice if the Microsoft Project file(s) for the project were published? And if there isn't one (or the equivalent in some competing format), why not? What one person is responsible for project management? Also, who does the weekly or monthly Earned Value analyses? Can those be published?
The job of project manager is to control "Cost, Schedule, and Performance" (CSP). Who is performing this task?
-- OneTahiti
I think the project manager
I think the project manager is an employee of the design Build firm that is paid and housed by the County, but I'm not sure. He seems to be at the center of the lawsuit vortex at the moment.
This thing is so confusing. I would welcome someone stepping up to the plate and explaining it to us...One of the County Commissioners who voted for this, perhaps?
If they were to read the posts on this forum...
their thought process would probably be something like this: "Why should I voluntarily go into that forum simply to become a target for derision and get my balls cut off because nobody's gonna hear what I have to say anyway?" I'm not one of these guys obviously, but if I were, I wouldn't feel like what I had to say had a snowball's chance of hell of getting open-minded consideration.
As most of you who have worked on a complex project should know, complex projects mean there WILL be problems. And NOBODY knows how to fix them better than somebody that's on the outside looking in and doesn't know the details.
RB
I disagree
We have several school board members who post here, and while there is agreement and disagreement expressed, they have been treated rather well, I think.
I think this is because they have been open and honest with us...which may be the sticking point in this jail project, now that I think about it. What, exactly, would be wrong with publishing the budget, timeline, and to date expenditures on a public works project that you and I are paying for?
What would be wrong with letting the public know who is responsible for doing what, when, and how much?
You do have a point, WC...
BUT:
"We have several school board members who post here, and while there is agreement and disagreement expressed, they have been treated rather well, I think."
True - of the school board members. They have never been subject to the derision from upper levels of management of this forum toward of any of their projects such as "Taj Majail" etc in ridiculing anything and everything that has had to do with the jail project. County Commission, as a body, has been subjected to that in this forum. If they read the posts in this forum concerning the jail project, they will find much negative, and no support. That was not, and is not, the case for the School Board.
"I think this is because they have been open and honest with us...which may be the sticking point in this jail project, now that I think about it. What, exactly, would be wrong with publishing the budget, timeline, and to date expenditures on a public works project that you and I are paying for?"
The accusatory nature of the conversation - and hence the antagonism - against the Commission is clearly expressed in the first sentence: school board members have been open and honest with us. The clear implication is that Commission has not been open or honest. Were I a Commission member, I'd figure I'd be in an adversarial conversation. Wouldn't you? I don't think there's anything wrong with publishing facts and figures. I've never suggested there was something wrong with it, nor have I heard statements from County Executive or Commission saying they thought that either.
RB
The Commission set the bar
By choosing a jail project that cost over twice what reasonable alternatives would have cost, the Commissioners set their own performance standard. In open meetings they were implored to put performance standards, incentives, and pemalties for nonperformance into place. This didn't happen.
Exactly what was projected occurred and we are months behind schedule... with lawsuits. The weather has been blamed, even though we are below normal in rainfall for the period, and I call BS on that one.
One interesting development is the letter to the editor in the Roane County News in which Gary Henson says the "scope of work agreed upon" will be completed within the established amount...$9,355,325.00.
I need to see what that "scope" is to see if we have a workable jail at the end of the day for that amount and what expenditures fall outside that number that in fact apply to the project.
It's also interesting to note that Sheriff Stockton is now interested in using ankle bracelet telemetry for non violent offenders, something we suggested several years ago that would have eliminated over crowding in the jail to start with.
We HAD to have a new jail
I have to agree with RB here in that I think the Commissioners would feel that they were engaging in a conversation with people who were not interested in hearing them out but rather just wanting to bash them for the jail project. And yes, they created this "problem" to a degree but I don't think they are completely to blame with all of the problems. Big projects do have big problems but these problems started long before any decision was made to build. We have needed a new jail for 10+ years and the previous commissions and Mayor kept putting it off and kept putting it off to the point where the feds were going to come in and tell us exactly what Roane County was going to build, how Roane County was going to staff it and order it done no matter what the cost of that would have been. I know people aren't happy with a 10 million dollar price tag but that could have been much, much worse. What have the Commission not been open and honest about?
Look at Cumberland County. 10 or so years ago they built a then state-of-the-art new justice center that they have already outgrown. They are having to fund a multi-million dollar expansion of that facility already. I know some were in favor of building a much cheaper jail here but the truth is we have needed a jail for so long that trying to get by on the bare minimum was only going to put us in another financial pickle much sooner. And I don't believe the Sheriff was ever opposed to using ankle bracelets for non-violent offenders but that would have only been a band-aid on the problem and would not have kept this jail from having to be built. Even with the ankle-bracelet monitoring the current jail is still going to be over-populated and in need of repairs that would cost as much or more than a new jail and wouldn't really solve any issues beyond a very temporary fix. The sad reality is that jail populations increase and we have to face that reality. The current jail hasn't been to standards for a population the size of Roane County for a very long time. I am all for questioning how our tax dollars are spent but I firmly believe that we are coming out much cheaper than we would have if the feds had mandated a jail which was very close to happening.
I'm not sure I buy that
I would like to see figures justifying this. And there was actually never any jail mandate from the feds. We had and still have several options by which we can reduce jail population which we aren't using:
Following State Law and "relase on recognizance" nonviolent, non-flight risk offenders would be step one.
What ever the deal was...the deal is that we have a jail project, and it is what it is. The least we should demand is that our County Officials manage it properly, with incentives and penalties regarding performance.
We were in such a screaming hurry to build a jail that we couldn't get a proper contract in place?
I don't think so.
(Hey...wWat was the original occupancy date for the new jail? Anybody know?)
Buy it or not...
You can buy it or not but the fact is once the jail was de-certified the feds would have come in and taken the project out of Roane County's hands. Go check with Morgan County and see how that wait until the feds make us plan worked out for them. You are correct the feds had not mandated anything yet but if they had (and they most certainly would have) then we as the tax-payers would have been stuck with a much higher than 10 million dollar price tag and the new jail would have had to be staffed to the federal guidlelines which would have meant an even higher recurring cost added to the tax base.
I think you should check your facts about what methods are being used to help reduce the poplation. Several offenders are out on OR bonds and that has been in place for a while now. If you don't believe me go ask the local bondsmen and see if they aren't feeling the economic effects of all of the OR bonds. And there is more than just wishing for an OR bond to make it happen. The Judge has to agree to give someone an OR bond. the commission or even the sheriff can't decide that. And while they may be non-violent or non-flight risk offenders that doesn't mean they aren't repeat offenders. I would be interested to know how many of the individuals out on OR bonds have been charged with offenses while out on those bonds. Even with the current OR bonds and ankle bracelet method the jail population continues to stay way above the occupancy limits. I believe the original limit was 53 prisoners but don't hold me to that. But regardless of the occupancy issue the jail was way behind standards in many other areas that were going to require a new jail be built. It seems a little short-sighted not to build a jail with some expansion capabilities rather than building the bare minimum to get by with. Then we would be facing the exacts same issue again in just a few short years if not sooner.
I will agree that the commission should require proper management but I strongly disagree that they were any rush to build a new jail. If this problem had been addressed several years ago (as it should have been) then this perception of a rush wouldn't be here now. The rush was brought on by the constant putting off so that it would be someone else's problem and now that has made it our problem.
Own recognizance
I would be glad to find out that OR is being used to keep offenders from ever being checked into the jail. I don't think that is happening.
What I understand is that once an offender has been in lock up for ten days or so and is still unable to make bond, the judges may then release them on OR. Is that what you are calling an OR release?
I don't mean to give the impression that we didn't need to do something about the jail situation, but a fair number of our problems were simple management and maintenence issues. It didn't take a ten million dollar capital project to clean the garbage off the floor or fix the sewer drainage. But we have what we have, and now all I ask is that we manage our situation with some level of competency, and keep the public more informed as to where we are, when we can expect it to be finished, and how much it will cost us.
Everyone has to be booked
Everyone has to be booked into the jail on an arrest so the officers can't just issue an OR bond right on the spot. That would potentially lead to way to many abuses and the judges are a necessary checks and balances to that. That is why the sheriff himself cannot just release offenders himself.
We certainly did need to do something and I can tell that you knew this but what I think you are missing is exactly how bad the current jail is. Simply fixing some sewer pipes (which has been done repeatedly) or picking up some trash would not even come close to resolving the issues plaguing the jail. We have needed a new jail for many years and the longer it was put off the more it ended up costing us. Hopefully once the new jail is built the lessons from this project will keep future commissions from making a similar mistake. Luckily I believe the new jail has some design features that will make it easier to address expansion in the future.
Chris Johnson one of the 15
Chris Johnson one of the 15 commisioners has much to say about the jail issue in Monday's RCN edition.Thank Goodness everybody is not asleep and mum on the issue.