I don't have many "must see" TV programs, but Friday night, I faithfully tune in to Bill Moyer's Journal on PBS at 9 p.m. This past Friday, he did a segment on the hate mongers on Talk Radio. While I consider Rush Limbaugh rather offensive, and Sean Hannity likewise, their ignorance and paranoia pales in comparison to the other personalities featured. One was aptly named Savage, and I don't remember the names of the others, but their message was chilling. They referred to liberals, as cockroaches that needed to be exterminated. The invective, and foaming at the mouth vitriol they heaped upon progressive ideas of tolerance, equality, uniform and impartial justice, protecting the environment, and bringing the troops home from the Middle East, was for me, shocking. They openly called for killing the "scum and vermin" that promotes liberalism. This was justified in their minds, because liberals were out to destroy the "White Male Power Structure." Having a Black man (even though he is right-wing himself), and women, Jewish and Latino, on the Supreme Court was "an outrage," and proof the country was sinking into the "slime of liberalism."
As I listened, for the first time I had an inkling of what it must of felt like to be a Jew in Nazi Germany, when Hitler and Goebbels were ranting about the "Jewish vermin" that needed to be dealt with in a decisive way. Right-wing death squads killing intellectuals and union leaders in Central and South America also came to mind.
Equally repugnant was Randall Terry, the radical anti-abortionist who threatened violent war against the establishment if health care reform included any money for any type of abortion procedure. And doing so in the "name of God."
The threat to our democracy is not the "liberal agenda" that would level the playing field, allow for a non-white, or non-male to be president, to give all people equal access to the law and courts, to provide universal health-care to those in need; rather it is the hateful festering and expression of racial and gender bigotry that justifies terrorism and killing to save the fading "White Male Power Structure." Chilling indeed.
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Eco warriors and politics
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Farmer Leaf
Thank you for the excellent post!
-- OneTahiti
Fear and Loathing in Political Discourse
The church’s pastor, Chris Buice, said on the JOURNAL:
“A man came in here and totally dehumanized us. Members of our church were not human to him. Where did he get that? Where did he get that sense that we were not human?... Some have suggested that his spiritual attitudes, his hatred of liberals and gays, was reinforced by the right-wing media figures... When you hear in talk radio that liberals are evil, that they are traitors, that they are godless, that they are on the side of the terrorist, that’s hate language. You don’t negotiate with evil people. You don’t live in a community with people you consider to be traitors.”
Living and teaching Earth friendly sustainable agricultural practices.
Farmer......
I can't help but respond to this one. Although I will always respect your views and opinions, I must take issue with this liberal tirade against the conservative members of society. This program you speak of was written, filmed, edited, and broadcast on PUBLIC GOVERNMENT FUNDED TV. How could you be so shocked by their opinions? I think what gets liberals so upset is the fact that conservative radio and TV kicks liberal butts from a ratings standpoint. For every conservative spewing venom there is an additional liberal spewing venom as well. Venom comes from both the left and right. You know this. Shall we name the liberals that have carried out acts of domestic terrorism???
The bottom line is there is a political war being waged in this country and both sides think they are right. I don't endorse any hate from any political party. Hate is just flat wrong and goes against the teaching of my lord and saviour Jesus Christ. You know that guy that liberals have fought to remove from society. However, there is plenty of blame for both sides of the aisle. I'm sure we could both write a book in support of our views but I'll leave it at that....for now.
"Shall we name the liberals that have carried out acts of
domestic terrorism???"
Ok, I'll bite, who are you talking about? That is pretty strong language and I would like to know who you are shooting at with your "tirade".
Your "PUBLIC GOVERNMENT FUNDED TV" needs some fact checking also. Thanks to lots of conservative attacks over the last 20 years or so on Public Radio and TV, the current number is around 15% of the operating budgets of PBS and NPR. That comes from the CPB which is supported by our federal government.
You also might want to check some current ratings, many of the conservative talking head standard bearers are in near free fall. I don't see any contemporary "liberal" or "progressive" who is using the kind of vile, hate filled speech of many media "conservatives". This kind of language is unnecessary, dangerous and is harming the long term health of their party and the country.
What is required is more tolerance for other people and their views.
That is the Christian thing to do.
Not so
NPR & PBS are member organizations for local public T.V. and radio and they receive less than 15% of their funding from CPB. Their true level of funding is more like 35% from all governmental sources including tax deductions for donations.
Local stations, such as WUOT, list that they get over 50% of their funding from donations leaving near 45% in direct government funds. Adding the tax deductions this brings their total to near 55%.
CPB receives $400M/year from the federal government. Although there have been three periods of funding cutbacks the trend since the late 1960’s has been upward. A large segment of the population believes that funding of the educational shows is fine. However government funded news and commentary are not. They have every right to oppose this.
The only talkers that I could see that are having a large decline in their standings were Ed Schultz and Randi Rhodes. The latter primarily because she can’t seem to hold a job.
For liberal/progressive talkers check my post elsewhere on this thread.
As to the christian thing to do, I have no dog in that fight. I’ll let those of you, who seem to have great knowledge about it, resolve that among yourselves.
My post was not a liberal tirade
and for you to knee-jerk reject Public Television as a government conspiracy, is to deny that ours is a government of the people, by the people, for the people. Public Television belongs to you! I have to wonder if you have ever watched "Bill Moyers Journal"? Public Television is about education, unlike the mind numbing crap on commercial TV. Its' role is to expand peoples' mental horizons beyond just the spoon fed pablum that currently passes for entertainment.
I had a chance to re-watch the Journal tonight and here are a few more facts. The man I named is Michael Savage, a pugnacious individual that is openly racist, homophobic, and xenophobic, in other words a mentally sick and dark individual who is into blaming and scapegoating to the point of inciting violence. He calls autistic children spoiled brats who need a good beating to "wake them up."
Another is Glen Beck, who on air wondered whether he could kill Michael Moore, or whether he should hire someone to do it for him. He decided he could choke M.M. to death while staring into his face.
A third hate monger is Neal Boortz, who refers to the Katrina victims as "the worthless dregs" of society, who were too lazy "to get off their fats asses and save themselves."
And lastly is Michael Reagan, son of the former president, who advocates "taking out the traitors and shooting them."
I think these people have moved way beyond "conservative" and are out on the lunatic fringe. Unfortunately, approximately 8 million listeners tune in daily to get their fill of venemous propaganda.
I think you have fallen into the same generalized "anti-liberal" trap with your statement "Hate is just flat wrong and goes against the teaching of my lord and saviour Jesus Christ. You know that guy that liberals have fought to remove from society."
I know "that guy" and how he advocated turning the other cheek, not killing "liberal vermin and cockroaches." It was in a Christian Church in Knoxville, where the hate-filled, right-wing gunman opened fire on the "hated liberals" who were worshiping the "Prince of Peace and Love," your professed saviour. Go figure!
This is a pluralistic society. That means that no one religion, philosophy, or culture can assume a dominant role to the exclusion of other expressions of belief. Religion belongs in the heart, or in the place of worship. It does not have the right to subordinate the spiritual beliefs of others, no matter how convinced its followers are that they are absolutely right. That rigidity is how holy wars occur.
And finally, I ask you to name any liberal commentator that espouses that kind of rabid, hate filled talk, and I will condemn that behavior as well.
Living and teaching Earth friendly sustainable agricultural practices.
One for three for farmer leaf
Instead of posting three separate responses to your first three posts I will provide only one.
I did not get to watch the program that you referred to and I thought that radio personalities would not be able to make the direct quotes that you attributed to them without some sort legal or regulatory penalty. To solve this I printed out a copy of the transcript to compare it to your posts. I might suggest that you do this also. Even though you got the flavor of talk radio both right and left, your post was less than useful. I have never seen anyone get so many quotes completely wrong, taken out of context or misstatements of fact in such a short amount of writing. I will list them for you below so you can easily find them on the transcript and then make the necessary corrections I’m sure you would want to make. It’s never helpful to let things stand as they are if incorrect.
Post # 1:
1. They referred to liberals, as cockroaches that needed to be exterminated. (neither is true)
2. They openly called for killing the "scum and vermin" that promotes liberalism. (completely false and the quote does not exist)
3. This was justified in their minds, because liberals were out to destroy the "White Male Power Structure." (#2 is false so that makes this false, however you did get the quote right even though out of context)
4. Having a Black man (even though he is right-wing himself), and women, Jewish and Latino, on the Supreme Court was "an outrage," and proof the country was sinking into the "slime of liberalism." (where this came from is a complete mystery and the quotes do not exist)
5. As I listened, for the first time I had an inkling of what it must of felt like to be a Jew in Nazi Germany, when Hitler and Goebbels were ranting about the "Jewish vermin" that needed to be dealt with in a decisive way. (I’m not Jewish so I’ll leave that to their community to resolve’ I do know that they frown on comparisons of present day minor disputes to the horror of the holocaust)
6. Equally repugnant was Randall Terry, the radical anti-abortionist who threatened violent war against the establishment if health care reform included any money for any type of abortion procedure. (Here is the quote ”We will not comply. And there will be unthinkable, and horrifying ramifications. People will react --whether they react peacefully yet forceable and with forethought, or whether they react viscerally, and eruptions of rage.” this person sounds a lot like Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson when they are promoting racial harmony)
Post #2
Your second post is simply two quotes from other sources although you didn’t provide links and the first quote is completely unattributied.
Post #3
1. Public Television belongs to you! (not an error just thinking how well all public owned ventures work out for us)
2. He calls autistic children spoiled brats who need a good beating to "wake them up." (No mention of beating and the quote is false)
3.Another is Glen Beck, who on air wondered whether he could kill Michael Moore, or whether he should hire someone to do it for him. (although vile, it was a senseless joke about what some people would do for $50M. No more vile than Bill Maher saying that the world would be better off if Vice President Chaney was to die or be killed.)
4. A third hate monger is Neal Boortz, who refers to the Katrina victims as "the worthless dregs" of society, who were too lazy "to get off their fats asses and save themselves." (both quotes are false)
5. And lastly is Michael Reagan, son of the former president, who advocates "taking out the traitors and shooting them." (treason is a capital offence and he was not referring to liberals)
6. I know "that guy" and how he advocated turning the other cheek, not killing "liberal vermin and cockroaches." (the quote is false)
7. That means that no one religion, philosophy, or culture can assume a dominant role to the exclusion of other expressions of belief. (you do seem to have a problem with the expression of some philosophical beliefs.
“And finally, I ask you to name any liberal commentator that espouses that kind of rabid, hate filled talk, and I will condemn that behavior as well.” ( see my other post on this thread )
I’ll stand by for your corrections and condemnations.
If therer is twisting of words,
I think you could take responsibility. I am not going to argue with an apologist for right wing "shock jocks." I stand by my original post, which you conveniently cherry picked. Also missing was the commentary of the authors and of Bill Moyers.
Living and teaching Earth friendly sustainable agricultural practices.
Please
Tell me how I twisted your words or made an error and I will apologize for it. However I would think it honorable for you to do the same if you can not.
C-man
These are old and discredited arguments. The head of CPB (NPR) is a Republican appointed by Bush. And let's have an example of venom from a leftie talker?
And I have to call bull hockey on your statement that liberals have tried to remove Jesus from society. That's simply a complete fabrication made up by right wing mouthers and repeated by the unthoughtful. I personally want the government to stay out of expressing religious preferences, as required by the Constitution. That is for each person to decide on their own.
The falseness of your religious statement is illustrated by the fact that prayer is available to every human being at every instant at every place. It is "preaching" that government entities are prohibited from by our Constitution. Perhaps the problem is that conservatives have difficulty distinguishing between prayer, a personal and private spiritual conversation, and preaching, a public espousal of a religious viewpoint?
Two points
The CPB & NPR are separate entities and there are two different women that are their heads. Of course they will be either very much or somewhat partisan to the Republican side as they were appointed by a Republican president. Elections have consequences. However both groups are controlled by their boards elected by the member stations.
I have no religious convictions so am no expert of their beliefs. However I would think that a prayer is a conversation, public or private, between the believer and his god. Preaching would be a public conversation between a selected believer and the faith’s followers to retain them or non-believers that he wishes to convert to his beliefs. The separation clause has always been and still does not prohibit any interaction between religion and state as long as the state is not seen to be promoting one over another.
Who are the hate-mongers? Do we support them?
Let's try some head-counts for the past year.
>Conservative hate radio: Savage, Beck, Boortz, Reagan and the big guy - 5 and counting.
Liberal hate radio: Zero
>Conservative nut fringe killings in churches: 4 dead
Liberal nut fringe killings in churches: Zero
>Conservative nuts shooting doctors for hate reasons: 1
Liberal nuts shooting doctors for hate reasons: Zero
What are the conclusions? That Liberals are better than conservatives at controlling their hate-merchants and their nuts? (humor)
My conclusion is that we have been confusing free speech with "free hate". Free speech supports discussion and debate of ideas. "Free hate" -- inciting to violence -- is a crime to be delt with.
I think that we (conservatives especially) must avoid becomming apologists for our nut fringe, or we must share responsibility for their actions.
TAO.....Excellent post!
It is truly shameful that segments of our media have deterioriated to the point of legal hate mongering in order to generate ratings. And make no mistake about it, $$$$, ego and personal gain is what drives them. These people are nothing more than cheap entertainment for largely uninformed audiences who want someone to blame for their problems.
They are masterful wordsmiths who have the ability to twist and distort the facts to suit whatever rant in which they engage. Their call-in format is not designed for any sort of discussion or debate but is more akin to the fervor created when the Romans threw another Christian to the lions.
If indeed there were liberal hate mongers preaching this kind of garbage, they would surely attract the nut fringe from the left and be just as visible.
Tolerant Vs. Intolerant
Liberals are by nature tolerant. Conservatives are far less tolerant. Intolerance breeds hatred....
Conservative talk show hosts are natural "haters". Rush refers to "femi-nazis" frequently. Conservative talk show hosts attack minorites repeatedly.
When was the last time you heard a liberal talk show host attack a poor person?
Anyone who says conservative and liberal radio personalities are equally hateful is in denial.
Oh, and by the way
Famer Leaf, Mac, WC, Rand, and Tao...I never could have said it so well as you all did. Righteous, dudes...:)
Leading a sheltered life,
The fact that I just became aware of the "gang of 5 hatemongers" must indicate I lead a sheltered life. We don't have cable or satellite access, and I stopped listening to commercial radio years ago as I don't like to be yelled at every five minutes to buy a new car or more furniture, etc.
I daily tune into 88.1, the NPR station in Chattanooga for news, eclectic music, and information. I like in depth stories behind news events, not just headlines and sound bites. I love the humor of "Wait, wait-don't tell me!, the interviews on "Fresh Air" and "Bob Edwards Weekend."
I come away from the listening experience more knowledgeable, often uplifted, and with a greater sense of the diversity that makes this "melting pot" the great country it is striving to be.
Hate-mongering has just the opposite effect.
Living and teaching Earth friendly sustainable agricultural practices.
Farmer in Case....
...Your not caught up on current events. This great melting pot of a country is broke. It is flat broke and hoplessly in debt to the point that our great great grandchildren will not be able to pay the debt service on the debt much less ever pay it off. In case you missed it the Chicoms were in town this week discussing their dissatisfaction with our current debt load and the declining value of their investments. Perhaps the feds will file bankruptcy when China calls our notes due.
No one denies that the right has an exclusive on hate mongers.
But they sure have a larger market share than the left wing nuts. Of all those you mention, only Maher has national coverage for an hour a week and most of his rhetoric is pretty bland, if not funny. Rhodes, Schultz and Malloy are virtual unknowns to most of the country and Carlin is dead.
Sam Seder, a mediocre comic, couldn't even hold a job at the now defunct Air America. I'm sure that you didn't have to look very hard for these instances of left wing hatred, but you could find as many similar right wing attacks in the first hour of Limbaugh's show tomorrow.
More than meets the eye
Ed Schultz has gone from a local Minnesota radio guy to a National radio and TV host. Rhodes is too out there, but Malloy and Mark Maron are excellent radio hosts for the left. Part of the problem is that the right wing is throwing millions of dollars at keeping these folks OFF THE AIR!
As an example, Liberadio(!) provides an excellent look at politics in TN from the Left and is well funded but has been denied broadcast time by owners of right wing talk radio. Conservative media loses millions of dollars each year but continues to be funded by Billionaires who will spend what ever it takes to protect their own power.
Liberal talk is on the ascendant, as conservative whackos like Glen Beck spiral off into padded rooms. Jesus was a Liberal and so am I.
Its funny how....
conservative posts are deleted from this blog while the liberal attack machine continues its smear campaign on conservatives. You liberals are only intersted in free speech when it agrees with your liberal platform.
For the record my post that was deleted debunked these liberal myths that are being spewed but I guess the truth hurts and its for the betterment of society that liberals be successful in censuring all conservative voices.
If Jesus IS a liberal since he still reigns in heaven today and the liberal agenda is his master plan then we won't be able to afford to live in heaven with all of the taxes that must be prevalent there. I bet its tough for Jesus to prepare the heaven he promised us with so many dependent people waiting for a handout. No wonder its taking so long.
I will not take part in a liberal blog that blasphemes the name of Jesus Christ. You all can have this garbage. I'm out of here...see ya!
Posts aren't deleted because
Posts aren't deleted because they are Liberal or Conservative, crappie man. They are deleted because they don't follow the rules. And just so you know, I didn't delete your post. You were voted off the island by the inmates.
This is comical
I can’t believe that the posters here are so insecure in their beliefs that they would delete a post that they all begged to have posted. How can you continue these self-congratulatory posts to each other about how right you are when the least criticism causes you to rush to the delete button? Is it that hard to continue to come here if the existence of some unwanted truth is still posted here to shatter your illusions of self -righteousness? Don’t you see the irony in this that you would claim tolerance for other beliefs and then do this.
The situation with Crappyman gives me visions of a police state mentality. If you speak out against the prevailing dogma then some of the community spies tag you to the authorities. You’re picked up with no explanation of what your offence was and just like that your not heard of again. Yes that the system for me.
Whites Creek
I’m going to need some backup on this. It sounds quite a bit like the right-wing claims against George Soros. I didn’t figure you for a follower of conspiracies.
The last two sentences sound strange coming from you. They have the feeling of wishful thinking. Is the fact that Jesus was a liberal an argument for that particular belief system? I know that in the past many groups have claimed to have a god on their side. However in this day and time with people believing less and less in that dogma I would think that wouldn’t be a very effective selling point. Maybe that was used for Crappieman’s sake.
WOW
I didn’t see that coming. The fact that liberal talkers are so incompetent that they can’t hold a job or audience makes their hate less meaningful.
I see that your cohorts deleted my list because if it’s not here then it’s not true. I guess that’s a good strategy. I can easily make you another, with different quotes, but why waste my time when it will only last for a few minutes. I guess it’s just too painful to see.
The above post
was for Randmart. I forgot to mention, why wait till tomorrow. Why don’t you just run over to Rush Limbaugh’s web site and pick up a few of those hateful tidbits that he passed out today? Bring them back and prove me wrong. The only problem is that I didn’t defend him or talk radio. I only provided you a list of liberal haters. to balance the discussion. as all of you requested.
I do not listen to talk radio
The times I did, there was no middle ground from either side. Conservative talk radio hosts think they are always right. Liberal radio hosts think they are. There will always be that battle of which side is right, and what we should believe. I will form my own opinion instead of someone telling me what I should believe. So, my radio station will not be tuned into talk radio.
W.C.
Why are you creating this one sided debate. Stop removing the relative post in this debate. How can we weigh in on this discussion without seeing both sides.
I find it humorous that
I find it humorous that someone, who has only been a member for 47 minutes, would be telling the website owner what to do in their first post.
I agree
Any thinking rational person should realize that you can’t form a coherent thought until you have been a member here for at least a day or two. Although I have heard that some people do possess a strange ability to view a situation for a few minutes and then give you a truthful assessment of what has transpired.
Mr BJ , you seem to support the right side trash talk..
by claiming it is equaled on the left side. I still dispute that claim. In the end, it is not relevant to this discussion. I would like to believe that anyone with a modicum of intelligence recognizes that hatred spewed from the right OR left benefits no one and taints all who listen.
As far as the OWNER of this site is concerned, everyone who posts here does so at his pleasure. It's his ball park and he can run it as he sees fit. He is a liberal and he set up the site as such. While I may not agree that some posts and posters should be removed,I don't make the rules, but if I choose to participate, I have to observe them....or go elsewhere.
Your statement reflects a basic misunderstanding of internet sites:
Because a site is accessible by the public does not mean that it is public forum with inherent rights to free speech.
Most of those who post here have found Roane Views to be a great source of information and a place for some worthy debate. If it degenerates into a right vs left battleground, any value is lost.
Ok, folks...Last post in this thread.
Please read the "usage and rules" and try to understand the goals here at RoaneViews. Posts are not removed for disagreeing with me. Nor are they removed at the whim of the users even though everybody can have a vote on a comment if they choose to. The best way to say why a post is removed is that it violates the "you can make a case for so-and-so being a such-and-such but you can't just call them that" rule. We want to develop critical thinking and good arguments. It's a process, though, and nobody's perfect.
AS for deleting a particular post, I explain when I can but sometimes I just get tired of the blather that doesn't contribute. I have only so much energy and for that I apologize. It does make me laugh when I read statements about this site being one sided, though, particularly when it flows from righties. This is a Progressive site, leans left, leans Democratic, but anyone who makes truthful thoughtful contributions is welcome, but...you aren't going to get away with posting astroturf.
I knew this thread was dangerous when Leaf posted it and it is actually probably outside the scope of RoaneViews' local interest focus. Let's try to concentrate on our common ground and leave the left right argument for other places.
I will delete any further comments in this thread and that's that.